I love the idea of Locksport! For those who are unfamiliar, check out the recent http://blackbag.nl/?p=353 and the older http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2006/nov/06/joys_picking_locks_secret_world_bumping/

--Bob

For the record, locksport and "extracting private data" is "not my bag man". It might be yours, but I think it would be detrimental for the maker/hackerspace group to pursue.

Apart from what it might do to the tone of the group, I believe that Canadian law says that it's illegal to own lockpicks unless you're a licensed locksmith, so locksport could open the space to legal complications.

mds: That's not what Canadian law says. It's illegal to carry instruments for the purpose of breaking in, but that also applies to crowbars, sledgehammers and bricks. Participating in locksport activities is "lawful excuse" for carrying lockpicks, just as participating in a Maker group makes it legal to carry crowbars and sledgehammers.

"Possession of an instrument suitable for the purpose of breaking into any place, motor vehicle, vault or safe under circumstances that give rise to a reasonable inference that the instrument has been used or is or was intended to be used for such a purpose."

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowDoc/cs/C-46/bo-ga:l_VIII::bo-ga:l_IX//en?page=6&isPrinting=false#codese:351

--Bob.

I guess this project idea is one reason NOT to include the word "HACKER" in our name... ;)

All devices and/or implements whose expressed purpose is to aid in criminal activity can be construed as being illegal. Somethings may require a judge to rule on, but I'm sure this project idea is against the ideals of most members.

I would also like to point out: This IS the big reason why I think the group needs a constitution. We really must instill the spirit of our group. I'm sure aiding in potentially criminal activity is NOT in the spirit of this group.

While I agree that it's probably a bad idea to do the locksport stuff as an 'official' activity, I disagree that it's illegal to use lockpicks for sport. I've made and used lockpicks, and it's a fun challenge that raises awareness on the weakness of some of the means of protection that we take for granted. Kinda like the 'Pwn to Own' and zillion of computer security conferences.

I've got a PowerBook G4 with firewire, a firewire cable, and an old AMD Athlon XP based PC with onboard firewire. I'd be very willing to do some firewire-hacking projects.

Uuuh I'm no expert in the law, but the TO a perfectly lock-happy: http://hacklab.to/archives/monthly-lock-pick-swap-meet/

Just last night when it got late and they got bored with their code, a bunch pulled out locks and picks from the boxes on the shelves and set to playing with them.

Uh s/a/people/ and add that I'm very against using our powers for evil. By "private data" I just meant to emphasize that using firewire can get me data I shouldn't be able to get. My interest in this is my own self-protection; I have to know how my systems behave in corner cases or else I can't trust them. I've heard (and spread) tall tales about firewire and dry ice but I've never actually tested them myself; not very scientific of me.

While I wouldn't mind the occasional lockpicking or "security research" demonstration, I think jumping straight into the 2600 magazine stuff on day one might send the wrong message. We should firmly establish that we're about making stuff first.

I ordered some custom pinned locks from a local shop a few months back, and before passing them along to their ultimate destination, took one apart, and attempted to reassemble it.

It's a surprisingly subtle combination of factors inside even a simple lock -- reassembling the lock ended up taking quite some time, resorting to pen and paper to figure out the rules of that particular lock from first principals, and lots of fiddly manipulations for which I was ill-prepared (which required creativity to solve as well). My main problem was that in taking the lock out of the cylinder, I allowed the pins to be suddenly freed, and powered by their springs they happily popped out and went spraying out of the lock, robbing me of any idea what the starting state of the lock was -- all I had was a barrel with empty holes, most of the pins/pin pieces, and a key (Insert cursing sounds here!).

I was almost resigned to buying a new lock, but won out in the end (I didn't want to pay to replace it, or ask the locksmith to re-pin it for me -- I wanted the satisfaction of getting it back on the road under my own steam. :).

Anyway, for all the know-it-alls out there that haven't tried playing in this space, I say it's got surprising depth and opportunities for enlightenment -- it's a window in the oft-overlooked subtleties of "simple" mechanical devices that can be too easily overlooked in the mad dash towards complex electronics. (Neither does this space require doing the slightest thing that even smacks of illegality -- there is more to playing with locks than just trying to spring one with picks.) I don't know if I'd recommend actually spraying the components of your test lock across the room -- all things considered, I didn't find looking around on the floor for little brass bits only slightly larger than rice all that enlightening, but YMMV.

PS, I'm not saying that anyone who hasn't played with locks is condescending know-it-all :). Before then, I'd never tinkered with a lock, but I often dismissed locks as being the shallow end of the pool, and not likely to provide much actual meat to get engaged with.

All I'm saying is that my little misadventure with that danged lock sure surprised me, and made me re-think my assumptions.

There is a long standing tradition of activities being illegal when performed indiscriminately, but not when they are constrained to a particular context. Martial arts fall into this category. Target shooting. Fighting at a hockey game. Capture the flag. Some flavours of kinky sex. Locksport. What makes something illegal in these cases is lack of consent and harm done. Yes, some tools are restricted, and there can be technical gotchas with mere possession. Lockpicking is not subject to those gotchas.

Taking the techniques you learn in locksport, and using them to *illegally* break into a lock, is expressly forbidden in organized locksport. Check out SSDeV's regulations for the sport, and Locksport International's zero tolerance rule. Talk to people who are actually involved in the sport. Lockpicking's come a long way since Ted the Tool.

Locksport is still in its infancy. TOOOL's been around barely 10 years. Locksport International just a few. Main stream public hasn't recognized it yet, and there are plenty of misconceptions floating around. So yes, there's going to be baggage associated with it. Its the same sort of baggage related to the "hacker" in Hackerspace -- a baggage which requires an evangelical passion to overcome. And it sounds like where locksport is concerned, that's more baggage than the group is interested in taking on. While I would be interested if we were to add it to the roster, I can play with my locks just as easily at the dining room table.

"Lockpicking is not subject to those gotchas" should read "Locksport is not subject to those gotchas".